A Solution... hopefully...

[DogGoneGood]

I have to put a little disclaimer: don't try this at home unless instructed by a professional


Remember me talking a bit about Linkin's problems with the neighbors kids? Well it's gotten worse. He is now showing, what I believe is, fear aggression towards ALL kids. It's no longer JUST the neighbors kids.

So, after a lot of crying, a lot of weighing my options, and a lot of discussions with my parents, (and $50.00 later on a good quality basket muzzle) we came up with a plan.

I'm going to work on two things: Rehabilitating him and Gaining Control. Gaining control would be through obedience and rehabilitation is through desensitization (getting him around kids). The control is there for the obvious reason, but also in case he can not be rehabilitated (which I fully understand may be the case).

Soooo... I called one of my neighbors on the weekend and asked if it was okay for me to walk her son home from school with Linkin (with the muzzle on). She was totally fine with it. So that's what I did today. It turns out he walks home with a girl from down the road, so I called her parents tonight and asked them and got the go from them as well. I felt bad because I didn't have the girls parents permision before today, as I know if I had kids and some strange neighbor girl was walking my kid home with her child aggressive dog, I'd be rightfully POed! But oh well, I have it now.

He did pretty good. I met the kids at the corner and explained to them the rules (no talking to Linkin other than a quick "hey Linkin" when we first meet, the dog is muzzled and WILL NOT hurt them, I will be between the dog and them at all times etc.).

At first we stood at the end of the road watching them come closer. Linkin sat in a heel and behaved, he whined and shook (not sure if the shivering was excitement or the cold; probably a bit of both). I worked on keeping myself in a calm state (as this is extremely important when dealing with any dog; but especially when dealing with an aggressive dog; as your emotions travel right through that leash!) and just kind of babbled at Linkin.

Once the kids got closer he was whining and shaking more but still in a heel. The second I started talking to the kids and the kids talking to me Linkin lunged forward, screaming (not snarling or growling... screaming... which I found odd). I gave him a correction and put him back in a heel.

He reacted this way (the screaming) for about halfway down the road. By the end of the road he was walking nicely in a heel (I didn't have to hold him back at all; though was still holding the leash tight enough he couldn't reach the kids if he tried) and was only whining periodically, and no screaming.

I asked the boy if he felt comfortable, if he was okay for us to continue this, emphasized that I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable or scared and that there's no way I'd let him get hurt. He said he was fine so I asked him if it was okay to continue our walks every day and he said yes. We said our goodbyes and Linkin and I turned back to head home.

Linkin kept turning and looking back in the boys direction, but other than that was behaving. After a while he stopped looking back and as a reward for his good behavior I took the muzzle off and gave him a cookie, and he was allowed to walk the rest of the way home like a normal dog going for a walk.

I think it went fairly well, considering. I think the fact that he was much calmer by the end of the walk than the begining is a very good sign and it makes me feel a bit more optomistic. Also the fact I have permision from both kids parents makes me feel much more at ease.

So we're going to continue walking the kids home every day, and working on his obedience every day.

The plan if this doesn't work:

Well, under my parents roof if this doesn't work I can't keep Linkin. I'm really, REALLY hoping it will not come down to that. If it does though, my options are to either see if Floyd (my instructor from Canada West Canine Centre) will take him, as he's the ONLY person I would trust taking Linkin and the only person I trust could handle his issues, or else he has to be euthanized.

Here's hoping I can gain control and hopefully, master this problem.

I really don't know WHY it came about... I probably never will. But I can tell you this; this dog had THE best temperament ever, and was the best dog I've ever had with kids since I, myself was a kid (we don't get kids out at our place a whole lot). It wasn't until he lived in this house for a few months that this problem arose, and at first it was ONLY towards a specific group of kids in my neighborhood (not the ones I'm working with), and then all the neighbor kids, and then all kids of that age and sex of the kids who it first started with, and then all kids in general. To me, the signs tell me that those specific kids DID something to my dog. I don't know if it was actually physical abuse or just taunting or WHAT. I can't even prove that they actually did anything. But I can tell you this; I'm extremely angry and upset about it.

[charmingnancy]

Oh Shara, I really, really hope Linkin continues with positive progress. I feel so terrible for you, I know how much he must mean to you. Bo is my baby, I wouldn't ever want to think about giving him away or putting him down for any reason. Just try to keep positive thoughts, and work with him as you have been trained to do, and you'll get through this.

[DogGoneGood]

Thanks Nancy. I am trying to stay positive and pushing the idea of giving him up or having him euthanized far from my mind. We'll get to it if we have to go down that road, but otherwise I'm going to stay optimistic

[abker17]

Hey Shara, I just wanted to let you know that I KNOW in my heart of hearts you can conquer this problem! I truly believe there is nearly no dog that can't be rehabilitated (and you've confronted the sort that couldn't... Hazel) but Linkin does not strike me at all as being a Hazel sort of case.

I believe in you! AND Linkin!

[DogGoneGood]

Thank you Abker

[DogGoneGood]

An update from my training Journal, posted today:

Monday, January 26, 2009: No walk with kids due to bad weather
Tuesday, January 27, 2009: Walk with both kids. Medium aggression upon meet (lunging forward, screaming, hackles raised), calmed down near A-frame house (Shelby's house)
Wednesday, January 28, 2009: Walk only with Shelby. Mild aggression upon meet (same reaction as Tuesday except to a lesser degree). Calmed down once we started walking and ignored her.
Thursday, January 29, 2009: Walk only with Shelby. Same reaction as Wednesday. Calmed down once we started walking.
Friday, January 30, 2009: No walk due to Evaluation Appointment.
Saturday, January 31, 2009: No walk due to weekend.
Sunday, February 1, 2009: No walk due to weekend.
Monday, February 2, 2009: No walk due to Pro-D Day.
Tuesday, February 3, 2009: Walk with both kids. Extreme aggression upon meet, took several firm corrections and waiting before the aggression turned to Mild. Calmed down by about A-frame house (Shelby's house).

My suspition is that his aggression is targeted towards boys more than girls. We will have to see how the rest of this week goes to make a better idea of this. Other factors could have contributed to the increased aggression, such as the fact we hadn't seen the kids for 4 days, and we hadn't seen Dan since Tuesday and only had one incounter with him. Another factor was that before even hearing or seeing the kids Linkin didn't seem to be in the best of moods. He was distant and kept pawing at the muzzle. He seemed uninterested in play and rather lethargic when it came to obedience, whereas all other days (with or without the muzzle) he's more alert and interested in play and obedience.

[charmingnancy]

I think it's great that you are keeping a journal about this (do you always do that when you train? I'd guess you do, just for reference). I'm wondering, how do the kids act when Linkin shows aggression? Do they just stand there, or do they scream and run away? Maybe if they are reacting negatively about it, it is only egging Linkin on, further causing him to act out. Even with the muzzle on, I'd guess that it would be a natural reaction to get scared when a big dog lunges at you. Does Linkin pull you down when he lunges at them? From your pictures, Linkin looks like a large dog (probably easily over 50 lbs?). When Bo lunges at other dogs in the park (which isn't too often, thankfully), he nearly pulls me off my feet (he weighs 55 lbs.)

[DogGoneGood]

Feb 4, 2009 20:39:26 GMT -5 charmingnancy said:

I think it's great that you are keeping a journal about this (do you always do that when you train? I'd guess you do, just for reference).

I don't always write in my journal, but I try to. I have an online training journal as well as one on paper. Which one I write in kind of depends on my mood, so sometimes it doesn't make sense unless you read both journals I like to try and keep track more for the bigger things, such as this issue.

Feb 4, 2009 20:39:26 GMT -5 charmingnancy said:

I'm wondering, how do the kids act when Linkin shows aggression? Do they just stand there, or do they scream and run away? Maybe if they are reacting negatively about it, it is only egging Linkin on, further causing him to act out. Even with the muzzle on, I'd guess that it would be a natural reaction to get scared when a big dog lunges at you.

No, the kids were instructed that they're allowed to greet Linkin when they first see him (by just saying hello, no attempt to pet) but other than that to just ignore him. When he shows aggression they just kind of stand there and wait it out. Once he's settled down we continue on our way. I've noticed that the more we do this, the less shy and timid the kids are, so they are getting use to it. They know I won't let him hurt them. I've drilled it in their heads since day one and they've seen through experience that he's fully under control.

Feb 4, 2009 20:39:26 GMT -5 charmingnancy said:

Does Linkin pull you down when he lunges at them? From your pictures, Linkin looks like a large dog (probably easily over 50 lbs?). When Bo lunges at other dogs in the park (which isn't too often, thankfully), he nearly pulls me off my feet (he weighs 55 lbs.)

No, if Linkin was pulling me off my feet, it would mean I don't have control and I wouldn't be doing this. I rarely get pulled off my feet by dogs, even on ice when they're wearing a regular flat collar. I was taught in school how to hold the leash properly, what muscles you should use to hold a dog back, and how to use your center of gravity to hold a dog back. Not to mention that Linkin is kept on a very short leash, I give him very little slack, and his prong collar is on the whole time. Firm corrections with a prong collar remove drive from a dog, it usually only takes two or three firm corrections to kill his drive when he's acting aggressive. ONCE I had to pull him up (front feet off the ground, not back) for a couple of seconds, and that was on Tuesday when he showed the highest aggression he has yet. Pulling a dog up like that will cut off their air. You should never hold the dog up and keep him there, only until you feel the tension slacken a bit and then he should be put back on the ground, and that never takes longer than about two seconds. It's not that the dog is choking or anything, it's more the shock of having their air momentarily cut off that makes them stop and kills their drive. I don't use this method unless I HAVE to, and yesterday if I didn't I could have been pulled off my feet because the roads are so extremely icey, and giving firm corrections just wasn't doing it.

It sounds harsh, and it is. I don't ENJOY giving my dog these types of corrections, and would NEVER be so firm with him in general obedience or other circumstances except this is something that is life or death for both people and Linkin. He MUST learn it's absolutely 100% NOT acceptable to behave this way.

The kids never take part in the training in anyway. They are just there. Once Linkin calms down, which takes about half the walk (about where the A-Frame house is) I usually talk to the kids and keep an eye on Linkin, and keep his leash short. I don't have to HOLD him back by this point usually, he'll walk in a heel nicely, but I don't give him any slack in case he gets any ideas.

I stress again; this method should never be used without supervision by a professional trainer. I AM a professional trainer and have been trained how to deal with dogs with aggression and what safety measures you can take if something should happen where you need to protect yourself or others from an attacking dog. I can't stress that enough for anyone reading this thread who may have aggression issues with their own dog. This thread is not meant to be information and a "how to" in any way at all, it is simply the progress of my own dogs training

[DogGoneGood]

The problem with training in public is that you can't always control the enviroment.

Wednesday, February 4, 2009: Walk with Dan, Shelby and a new kid Dillon. There was also the school bus, two other kids (getting off the bus) their two dogs, Shelby's dog, and apparently Dillons dog to worry about on today walk. Very stressful in deed, and the wrong time to run out of smokes I can tell you that. Mild aggression upon meet. Calmed down after a few firm corrections (a very firm correction will inhibit drive). The interesting thing I noticed on todays walk, besides the overwhelming amount of distractions, was that after the initial meet and Linkin's hackles began to lower and he was now just whinning, Shelby said "it's okay Linkin" and his tail wagged a little. It may seem like something small, but to me it is HUGE progress. Before if a kid were to talk to him it would get him all rilled up again.
Thursday, February 5, 2009: I'm a little behind on updating... and for some reason I really don't remember how things went for this day.
Friday, February 6, 2009: No walk due to training appointment.
Saturday, February 7, 2009: No walk due to weekend.
Sunday, February 8, 2009: No walk due to weekend.
Monday, February 9, 2009: Those kids seem to be multiplying. There was Dan, Shelby, Dillion, and a young girl. I'm not sure her name. Aggression was extremely mild, in fact all that showed was his hackles were slightly raised upon meeting but for the majority he was excited but not aggressive. He calmed down quickly and the only problems that arose were when the kids would run or throw snow balls he would watch them very closely and get very excited; but nothing out of the ordinary or of any difference if it was anyone (including myself) that would induce his play (prey) drive in that way.
Tuesday, February 10, 2009: Walk was cut short due to training appointment, so I met the kids a little further down Kring than usual (but not so close to our old house that he would may any extra attention to the kids that live there or their dog). He was excited and crying upon meet, and his hackles were SLIGHTLY raised, but other than that seemed to show absolutely no aggression. However, today was much more relaxed as the only kids walking were Dan and Shelby. We walked to Shelby's house and then turned back home. It was a pretty relaxed walk. On a side note; it appears Linkin is now becoming very excited BEFORE we go out, even minutes before I get ready to go out. He seems to have learned when we go meet the kids and appears to be very excited about (more excited than any regular walk).

[charmingnancy]

It's wonderful that Linkin is improving with your daily interactions with the kids. These things just take time and patience, as you know. At least he is acting excited before leaving, great to know that he's getting used to it.

[DogGoneGood]

Wednesday, February 11, 2009: No walk because I lost track of time.
Thursday, February 12, 2009: No walk with Linkin because he was sick. Instead I took Coal out, who did absolutely fine.
Friday, February 13, 2009: No walk because the kids had a field trip.
Saturday, February 14, 2009: No walk due to weekend.
Sunday, February 15, 2009: No walk due to weekend.

Monday, February 16, 2009: Walked with Shelby and Dan. We saw 8 deer at the begining of the walk (amazing!) and so Linkin was very amped up. I let him sniff the deer tracks and "track" the deer (until the woods) to pass the time and get a bit of tracking practice in until the kids showed up. Because Linkin was already amped from the deer he was more excited than usual to see the kids but I was able to calm him down quickly enough and the rest of the walk he did great. No aggression, just extreme excitement at the begining of the walk.
Tuesday, February 17, 2009: Walked with Shelby and Dan. First day walking with Linkin between the kids and I rather than me between him and the kids. He showed no aggression, but cried a bit and wagged his tail. He kept trying to lean over and sniff Dan at the begining of the walk but I wouldn't let him get too close, as I could tell from his body language he wasn't 100% comfortable. After about a minute or two he no longer showed any interest in him and just walked in a nice heel.

[charmingnancy]

Great to know that Linkin is still making positive progress. Have you told your parents how great he has been doing on these walks?

[DogGoneGood]

Yup, they get an update every day.

[DogGoneGood]

I've decided to break up my enteries on the Dog Blog by every two weeks, so after every entry I'll post those two weeks worth on here Here's the update for the last entries two weeks (after the last post I made)...

Wednesday, February 18, 2009: No walk due to volunteering with the HS.
Thursday, February 19, 2009: Walked with Dan and Shelby. The kids were given some long, chewy treats to feed to Linkin through the muzzle. No problems when Shelby gave him a treat but when Dan did Linkin snarled and lunged. I corrected him and we tried again. He was much more passive this time but we couldn't quite get the treat through the muzzle because it was too wavy (beggin' strips). The rest of the walk went fine. When I got home I broke up all the treats (two bags worth) and separated the wavy ones from the straight ones. We'll try again tomorrow and hopefully things go smoother.
Friday, February 20, 2009: Walked with Dan and Shelby. At the begining of the walk they each gave Linkin cookies (the flat ones I made to fit in the muzzle better). It went smoother, although at one point Dan dropped the treat on the ground and when he went to pick it up Linkin snarled and reached forward with both paws like he was going to try and get the cookie back. I corrected him and put him back in a sit and Dan was able to give him the treat with no problems. I'm not sure if the aggression was directed at Dan, but I have suspitions it was more of a "that's my treat and you're not getting it" which is probably due to him still not trusting Dan, as Linkin has ZERO food aggression.
Sauturday, February 21, 2009: No walk due to weekend.
Sunday, February 22, 2009: No walk due to weekend.

Monday, February 23, 2009: Walked with Shelby and Dan. Linkin took cookies from both kids nicey and walked between me and the kids again. He's getting better each day. He no longer raises his hackles at all and in fact, wags his tail when he sees them. He's become more patient with recieving cookies as it is very hard to get the cookie through the muzzle properly. Today was also the first day he actually wagged his tail and showed zero aggression towards the school bus and the two kids (we do not walk with, but stand from a distance and observe) who get off the bus every day.
Tuesday, February 24, 2009: No walk due to -30 weather.
Wednesday, February 25, 2009: No walk due to -30 weather.
Thursday, February 26, 2009: Walked with Dan and Shelby. No aggressive behavior. I had to put hot water bottles in Linkin's back pack to keep him warm so he was walking a bit "drunken" from the uneven weight (woops, I TRIED to keep it even!) and at one point he swayed right up next to Dan. I didn't notice at first because I was wearing mittens so didn't have as good of a grip on the leash as usual. When I noticed I pulled him back into a heel but first took a second to observe his behavior. He had no problem what-so-ever being so close to Dan, it didn't phase him one bit.
Friday, February 27, 2009: No walk due to Pro-D day.
Saturday, February 28, 2009: No walk due to weekend.
Sunday, February 29, 2009: No walk due to weekend.

[charmingnancy]

I think the kids giving Linkin treats is a great idea. It is showing him that it is okay for them to put their hands around his mouth, because he gets rewarded. But, it's still wise to keep the muzzle on him for a while, just in case.